Compressed magnetic fields and why they might provide "free" energy

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Downunder35m
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Compressed magnetic fields and why they might provide "free" energy

Post by Downunder35m »

I recently got bored and was not in the mood for 3D printing or designing things for once.
So I put some old movie on and wanted to just have some snack...
Too bad I spotted my big magnet on the fridge holding a lot of (paid) bills.

I have it in a plastic container with some silicone at the bottom as otherwise that things is just too damn hard to get off surface - and I don't want to crack it - was expensive :(
Right next to it were some magnets from old hard drives.
Needless to say the movie played with me not paying too much attention LOL

I already played around with these hard drive magnets- if you have enough identical ones they make a rather strong circular generator is you add some coils.
But did you ever try this tiny gap arrangement with two strong and OPPOSING magnets?
All I wanted was a 3mm gap and then to run some Numetal strip through it....
Took some rather facy creations to make it happen without the strip being pulled onto one of the magnets.
But once I had it in place it was in there like glued into place.
And sure enough those field at the end of the strip and going to the other pole of the magnets had some really "sharp" points.
How could this created energy though, or to be precise, electricity?

If we look at those gerators used in our big wind farms then there is already a clue.
In those the magnets come with a U-shaped core holding them.
Means the coild run through a much stronger magnetic field compared to just using the two magnets alone.
On the other hand, if we look at a simple fan motor with three speed settings we find those rather fance looking cares holding the coils.
To make the fan work different section of these cores are used and through the core shape the flux is "compressed" to right where the magnets are.

What do you think youd happen if we used similar desing in a fance generator? ;)
It is quite possible to buy "naked" transformer cores.
The classic square design not the W type.
A coil on the part betwwen the legs to generate some juice.
But where the ends of the core meet the magnets....
On either side a pair of opposing magnets.
Only big problem is to find the correct number of cores and magnet pairs to keep the binding forces even instead of creating a bumping generator.


And then there is this problem that I still fail to fully understand....
We learn that to create electricity with a coil and magnet we need movement.
Only a CHANGIN_G field can produce electricity.
What about a "collapsing" magnetic field though?
If a coil is placed above one magent, to be in the max zone of the flux and we lower an opposing magnetic field down onto it....
At the right distance the coil would end up in a zone with basically no flux at all.
By keeping the distance as short as possible only a few millimeter of movement would be required....
Am I thinking wrong here ?
Exploring the works of the old inventors, mixng them up with a modern touch.
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Orngrimm
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Re: Compressed magnetic fields and why they might provide "free" energy

Post by Orngrimm »

Yes and no:
- you have a coil and a non-powered magnet nearby
- You switch ON the magnet and the Coil gets a shorttime current induced as the magnetic field changed (weak to strong).
- You switch OFF the magnet and the same coil gets a shorttime current induced in the opposite direction (Lets call it negative) as the magnetic field changes in the other way (Strong to weak)

See https://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/electromag ... tance.html :
When the current in a circuit is switched off, the induced magnetic field begins to collapse. As the field is collapsing, it generates voltage in the direction that momentarily prolongs the main current flow. When the induced magnetic field is fully collapsed, the induced voltage and current flow cease
Basically this is eaxctly what a high-Voltage zapper für fences for animals does: It uses a coil and a magnet (Which in this arrangement is the same item: The Coil) and passes pulsed power thru it:
- Voltage rises and current starts to flow in the coil.
- Flowing current generates a magnetic field around the coil.
- The power is switched off
- the magnetic field collapses and induces a current in the coil.
And here is the special thing: As current and voltage cannot exist indipendely, a flowing current has to generate a voltage proportional to the resistance of the circuit. If your Switch is very high resistance, the voltage has to be very high to let the current flow in coronal discharges or in an arc.
And this is where the high voltage peaks in such a device come from.

This exact thing has to be taken into consideration if you ever design a circuit with a motor, a magnetic buzzer or a relais (All have a coil): A freerunning diode has to be placed parallel to the coil to prevent the high voltage destroy your electronics. With the freerunning diode, the max reverse voltage = the diode-voltage and thats normally no problem.
Minus 1000V on your CPU may be another story if you forget to place such a diode...

It doesnt matter if you move a magnet in the vincinity of a coil, Change the magnetic field by other means like changing the current in a electromagnet or pushing the magnetic field by another mean like another magnetic field, intermitted Shielding or magneto-resistive coupling.
--> If your magnetic field changes, so does the induced current.
A magnetic field doesnt just "stop". Basically your frige-Magnet influences every atom in the universe... The influence is falling off in a cubic correlation to the distance (10x distance, 1000x weaker) but it will never go to 0.
Now, the stronger the change (Delta Flux per time) in the magnetic field, the higher the induced current. Thats why generators are machined to such super tight tolerances and why they have field-guiding structures: They collect and guide the magnetic fieldlines as much a possible and "hand it over" to the rotor with a gap as small a possible...
Image

So basically: Yes: If you push a magnetic field it will have the same effect as if you moved the magnetic field itself.
A magetic field moves proportionally to external magnetic fieldstrength. So you gain nothing if you push a magnetic field by another moving or changing magnetic field.
You are better off if you change the initial magnetic field directly.
If this is not possible, the indirect method can be used, but it will have additional losses as nothing has perfect diamagnetic properties.
An example is this bike-light which couples indirectly into the aluminium-rim of the bike... secondry and tertiary coupling make a rather bad efficiency generally, but as they dont need to touch the rubber or rim, they save a lot of losses there and it seems to pay off in the end...
https://www.magniclight.com/
https://patents.google.com/patent/EP259 ... =EP2593351 Fig 4 for good drawings on how they move the magnets by eddy-currents and letting it induce current in a secondary coil for the light.
Builder of stuff, creator of things, inventor of many and master of none.
Tinkerer by heart, archer by choice and electronics engineer by trade.
Downunder35m
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Re: Compressed magnetic fields and why they might provide "free" energy

Post by Downunder35m »

I know the problem with collapsing fields in coils or what switching them off does.
But I am more wondering how this compression effect of the permanent magnets affects things.
The higher the field strenght going through the coil the higher the power output should be.
We can't just supersized magnets to overcome to problem but we an use arrays to get rather strong fields - like the Halback one.

If you use a viewing film of just iron dust on a plate:
Two opposing magnetic fields getting close always make the field lines "bend".
And from what I can observe with my limited options:
If a suitable "core passes two of these magnet packs the field lines can be "focussed" to a surprisingly small area.

I got the basic idea back when playing too much with salvaged MOT's.
I removed all the extras and only left the seconday coil on there.
Then I cut a 1mm slot into the top bar - one on either side.
A bit of enamel spray paint and ready to go.
Quite surprising how quickly a thin metal strip gets reall hot i thoe tiny gaps....
Exploring the works of the old inventors, mixng them up with a modern touch.
To tinker and create means to be alive.
Bringing the long lost back means history comes alive again.
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Orngrimm
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Re: Compressed magnetic fields and why they might provide "free" energy

Post by Orngrimm »

Not sure what you are trying to do here...
- The denser a magnetic field is, the more energy is generated if moving a conductor thru these lines.
- You can immagine the whole arrangement like "1 millitesla per drawn fieldline" and "0.1 Joules per crossed fieldline"
- You get more Joules per second (Or = Wattseconds) if you A: Move faster or B: Cross more fieldlines with the given speed
- Yes: If you put 2 Opposing magnets close to each other, the fieldlines are getting denser.

No new disoveries there... Or i dont understand what exactly is so fancy about these basic facts.
Builder of stuff, creator of things, inventor of many and master of none.
Tinkerer by heart, archer by choice and electronics engineer by trade.
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